Curse

Limu Tolkki · Dec 16, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Their new lvl1 character has not achieved 100% canthan cartographer (although wearing it) which is the reason they can't map everywhere. That's where the fail in logic is.

So with your logic every pvp should be character based too?

freekedoutfish · Dec 16, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

all the rest, ss, lb, norn, asura, dwarf, faction are ALL grind. Faction is already account based why not the rest?

~the rat~

Max level for LB/SS = 50 thousand!
Max level for GWEN titles = 160 thousand!

Max level for faction = 10 million!

Thats why!

It takes no effort at all to increase GWEN or LB/SS title ranks! It may not take any effort to increase faction either, but it takes a hell of a lot longer and ANET cant justify making us earn 10 million points per character.

But earning a tiny 50k for LB and SS is nothing if you feel the need to max them out, which you dont have to do. Even 160k for GWEN titles isnt unreasonable if you feel the need to max those out too, but you dont have to.

Tell me you appreciate the difference between 10 million - 50 thousand points?

Razz Thom · Dec 16, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Dan the n00b needs to get over himself already. Hey my new lvl 20 PvP only ele hasn't been in a single AB, but she has r5 luxon. Wow. in one sentence i proved your name is accurate. You are grabbing one facet of the post and trying to turn it into an argument. Long winded post repeating the same thing repetitively do not prove your point they demonstrate narrow minded thinking. So please for everyone here.......STFU already. we heard your rant now just shooosh.

freekedoutfish · Dec 16, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

So with your logic every pvp should be character based too?

pvp chars are ten a penny and created within 10 minutes with full armor, weapons and full customisable. You can even buy full access to all weapons, all pvp locations, max armor and skills from the online store. No gold required.

pve chars you have to build over a much longer amount of time and from scratch and buy everything they have. No unlocking stuff and just going "oo ill use that". Instead you spend days saving up or days doing missions and quests and exploring.

Thats why pve titles are different and why the achievements of a pve char are different to a pvp.

Fully ready pvp char = 10 minutes.
Fully ready pve char = days, weeks or months.

You could delete a pvp char and have it created again within 10 minutes. You delete a pve char and it wil takes months or years to re-achieve their accomplishments.

How do people not realise that? You cant compare a pvp char a pve and say make titles account based because pvp titles are.

Woop Shotty · Dec 16, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I know we're all dreaming, because while they like to make GUI kind of changes that are helpful, they like to keep us working hard.

/signed (Anything to make people not dread going through GWEN on several characters, right?)

Noel Hope · Dec 16, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

/signed

It would be nice if the GW:EN titles were account based. It is a bit disheartening and boring grinding for points on each character for the sake of armor. Of course, countless players have complained about this already. At this point, I doubt A-net will change these titles to account based.

~ Dan ~ · Dec 16, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

So with your logic every pvp should be character based too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

Dan the n00b needs to get over himself already. Hey my new lvl 20 PvP only ele hasn't been in a single AB, but she has r5 luxon. Wow. in one sentence i proved your name is accurate. You are grabbing one facet of the post and trying to turn it into an argument. Long winded post repeating the same thing repetitively do not prove your point they demonstrate narrow minded thinking. So please for everyone here.......STFU already. we heard your rant now just shooosh.

So basically Razz Thom, you get off on your high horse because someone actually disagrees with the majority *gasp* and are confused as to what the point of a forum is? Diddums.

I suggest both of you re-read this for my opinion on PvP account based titles:

Quote:

ANET made some titles account based and some character specific - and that decision was correct. Excluding the (un)lucky titles, all account based ones are PvP. That makes sense though. PvP titles are reflecting the player's skill. PvE titles are reflecting what that role-playing character has achieved. That is how it should stay.

Did you get that? No? Ok i'll quote it again and bold the important part. Ready? Here we go:

Quote:

ANET made some titles account based and some character specific - and that decision was correct. Excluding the (un)lucky titles, all account based ones are PvP. That makes sense though. PvP titles are reflecting the player's skill. PvE titles are reflecting what that role-playing character has achieved. That is how it should stay.

Thanks very much.

BlackSephir · Dec 16, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Ah, PvE titles are char-based, THAT IS why Lucky and Unlucky are acc-based :d
And Friend of L/X, which affect PvE skills too!

Quote:

PvP titles are reflecting the player's skill. PvE titles are reflecting what that role-playing character has achieved. That is how it should stay.

And who plays pve chars? Another person?

So much crap in the wall of text below that I'm not even going to answer that.

freekedoutfish · Dec 16, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Ah, PvE titles are char-based, THAT IS why Lucky and Unlucky are acc-based :d
And Friend of L/X, which affect PvE skills too!

And who plays pve chars? Another person?

PVP characters reflect the players ability to quickly create a pvp char and fight against other players.

PVE characters reflect the players ability to role play a character through a storyline from lvl1-lvl20 as an individual. Buying skills, armor and other gear from the bottom-up.

PVP is about the players ability to fight other players. PVE is about the player role playing a character for weeks and months and years at a time against the game.

Yes its the same player, but there is a huge difference between pvp and pve and try to accept that. The development and creation of a pve character takes more time, effort and accomplishment and that is individual to the character which the player controls.

Im not saying pvp chars dont take skilll, they do. But a different skill of playing against another pvp player. PVP chars dont have the same attachment to them, because you can create them in 10 minutes and their ready to go. If you delete them, you can make them again in no time at all.

If you deleted a lvl20 pve char you would be loosing ALOT more then if it was a pvp char.

We need account AND character based titles to reflect that! If we make alot of character based titles account based, it removs that idea of you role playing an individual through a long process. PVE characters then just become as disposable as PVP chars because they would all show the same accomplishments even if they didnt achieve it themselves.

Limu Tolkki · Dec 16, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

PvP titles are reflecting the player's skill. PvE titles are reflecting what that role-playing character has achieved. That is how it should stay.

Are you actually saying that PvE titles does not show player skills but PvP does? I can go to AB and run around for 2000 hours or 4000 hours or how long it would take to get max luxon/kurzick title, thats skillful? I agree that ss, lb, norn, asura, ebon and dwarwen titles dont really need skills, but does PvP ones? But how about gmc or legendary guardian or vanquisher, such titles really do need skills. Of course PvP titles need also, but mainly, its just grinding.

Darkhell153 · Dec 16, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

There's a word for this suggestion...interesting

no wait what's the word?....Pointless

They're not going to fix it, give up and pretend you care about the titles for another 8-10 months until arenanet puts out gw2 and we can all yell at them for screwing up something else later. (which is guarenteed they will)

freekedoutfish · Dec 17, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkhell153

There's a word for this suggestion...interesting

no wait what's the word?....Pointless

They're not going to fix it, give up and pretend you care about the titles for another 8-10 months until arenanet puts out gw2 and we can all yell at them for screwing up something else later. (which is guarenteed they will)

1) Its your opinion that Anet screwed titles up. I personally like them and see nothing wrong with them.

2) What is the huge importance with titles? If you all hate them so much and think their a major screw up then why do you want to earn them! Why bother if you get no joy from it or feel so passionate about it.

This is all purely because they have an effect on pve only skills, and not because you all really like collecting titles. None of you actually care about fixing anything to benefit titles, you all just want to max pve only skills easier.

If titles are such a mess, then dont earn them! Do something else!

If im wrong and some people in here are passionate about titles in the "I really like collecting them" sense, then I apologise and I can appreciate and respect your view on this. But if most/all of you are just wanting this to max pve only skills easier and no other reason... then get over it.

Pve only skills are not the be-all and end-all of the game!

Isileth · Dec 17, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

2) What is the huge importance with titles? If you all hate them so much and think their a major screw up then why do you want to earn them! Why bother if you get no joy from it or feel so passionate about it.

There are 2 main views here.

1) If you dont enjoy part x of the game dont play it.

And

2) If part x of the game isnt enjoyable to everyone, try and change it so it is.

Personally I go with view #2.

Getting the non grind skill based titles is fun for me.
Getting the non skill grind based titles is not fun for me.

To me changing the parts I dont like would be an improvement.

Stupid Shizno · Dec 17, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

the arguement of having a KOBD on a lvl1 is dumb, since it already is possible.

if you max the kurzick and luxon, both lucky and unlucky titles, and say you happen to max a hero title, though it does sound highly impossible, it is plausable. your presearing char will have "KOBD"

does this mean anything? no not really, ive proven this over and over in ToA, on my lvl8 monk with full fow armor displaying r9 hero title. no matter what title, or armor a char has, if its not lvl20, people think your a newb.

freekedoutfish · Dec 17, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

There are 2 main views here.

1) If you dont enjoy part x of the game dont play it.

And

2) If part x of the game isnt enjoyable to everyone, try and change it so it is.

Personally I go with view #2.

Getting the non grind skill based titles is fun for me.
Getting the non skill grind based titles is not fun for me.

To me changing the parts I dont like would be an improvement.

You do appreciate that these forums are biased and dont reprosent the actual opinion of 100% of the GWs community?

1) Most people who post in here are likely to be the people who agree, so the those who dont arent being fairly reprosented.
2) Not everyone who plays GWs posts in this forum, so you cant argue "everyone" agrees.

I wish people wouldn't make statements along the lines of "everyone doesnt like it" based on the opinions of threads. I'm speculating here, but I would think this website only reprosents about 5-10% of the entire GWs community.

I completely accept and respect that if you feel something isnt fun, then you personally should ask for it to be changed. Thats great and thats how the game is changed.

But just because yourself and about 10-15 other people agree it needs changed doesnt mean "everyone" does. Your talking about 15 people out of thousands of players.

The unfortunate truth is that titles (for the most part) can be completely avoided. Its only those which unlock armor in GWEN, or when you need 10k faction or so many SS points to progress which have any annoying impact.

But thats the crunch of your issue:

GWEN you only need rank 5 which is easily accomplished.
10k faction is extremely easy to make within half a day (or less) of playing AB.
The required SS amount to progress is easily attained from quests and a tiny bit of bounty hunting.

As for the impact on pve only skills. I also completely agree those are "nice" to have maxed out and "nice" to play and experiment with. But you dont need them maxed out to progress ingame. Their just a nice little collectable thing to play with if you want and you have 100s of other skills to try.

I'm only on rank 4 Kursack and already I get around 34 seconds of +1 points to my elemental attributes. I'm not going to scough at that if I want to use it.

Yes longer would be nice, but when will I ever use it? Hardly ever!

The only pve only skills you might need in GWEN are alkars acid, the extinguise one and the one to reveal hidden places. All of which are just as effective as lower levels.

Even LB gaze is effective at rank 1. It just happens to hit more targets the more ranks you have.

The other issue I find hard to understand! If a persons enjoys collecting titles, then they shouldn't care if its character based because it gives them more to collect. And/or if there are titles you dislike collecting, then dont collect them.

There really is not arguement to say "Im being forced into collecting certain titles" because the ranks required for GWEN, SS and faction are so low that its very done.

The ranks needed to make pve only skills effective are also very low and you dont need them maxed to do a good job.

I realise it may annoy some people, but this isnt the same level as having limited storage capacity or nerfing skills or some other problem which cant be avoided.

The issue with titles is completely optional and if you dont like it, then dont do it! Others do enjoy it and do like the title system and think its absolutely fine.

Whether thats most people or some I dont know. I havent spoke to EVERYONE ingame to find out and no one can.

legion_rat · Dec 17, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

The problem fish isnt having to grind its having to grind 8 times. And yeah the needed lvl for armor is 5 in all the gw:en titles. But max is huge and a lot of work. As someone said before, it is the same player playing all of these characters. Why shouldnt the same player actually be rewarded? Try for the "slayer of all" norn title see how long that takes since your bringing up times.

You mentioned pvp vs pve chars and the amount of time spent creating and working them. I could not agree more. All of my chars a pve. I would not change that for the world. I love doing the missions with a new char and trying to beat the game in new ways. But, the grind based items make the game repetitive. I want to be able to log on with my necro, kill stuff in a dungeon and it counts towards an account based title. So that when I decide to buy armor i dont have to go, "crap my ele doesnt have rank 5 gotta go grind some more"

Is it lazy? yes. As far as the SS titles, again its a lot of grind.

lvl 1 with KOBT? That means someone has done some work. They have played often to get their titles, even if it was more than one character.

~the rat~

Isileth · Dec 17, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You do appreciate that these forums are biased and dont reprosent the actual opinion of 100% of the GWs community?

1) Most people who post in here are likely to be the people who agree, so the those who dont arent being fairly reprosented.
2) Not everyone who plays GWs posts in this forum, so you cant argue "everyone" agrees.

I wish people wouldn't make statements along the lines of "everyone doesnt like it" based on the opinions of threads. I'm speculating here, but I would think this website only reprosents about 5-10% of the entire GWs community.

At no point did I say "everyone doesnt like it" or anything along those lines.

I said not everyone likes it.

My point being if you can take something not everyone enjoys and make it so everyone does enjoy it (or at least more than before) thats an improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The unfortunate truth is that titles (for the most part) can be completely avoided. Its only those which unlock armor in GWEN, or when you need 10k faction or so many SS points to progress which have any annoying impact.

The same can be said of all the game. You have been around in other discussions where its been pointed out that since all of the game is optional, using it as a reason to not bother improving something just isnt valid.

Yes if you say this change would make it worse or something like that, im not saying you cant disagree. Just dont pull out something like the above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

GWEN you only need rank 5 which is easily accomplished.
10k faction is extremely easy to make within half a day (or less) of playing AB.
The required SS amount to progress is easily attained from quests and a tiny bit of bounty hunting.

As for the impact on pve only skills. I also completely agree those are "nice" to have maxed out and "nice" to play and experiment with. But you dont need them maxed out to progress ingame. Their just a nice little collectable thing to play with if you want and you have 100s of other skills to try.

Again another argument thats been discussed before.
You dont NEED max armor.
You dont NEED max dmg weapons.
You dont NEED 8 skills.

But it does have an effect on gameplay. Time spent is rewarded. In a game that advertises as skill>time surely you can understand why a lot of people would like it changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The other issue I find hard to understand! If a persons enjoys collecting titles, then they shouldn't care if its character based because it gives them more to collect. And/or if there are titles you dislike collecting, then dont collect them.

And again back to my previous post.
If some players dont enjoy them, why not improve them so that more do?

Just saying if you dont enjoy it dont do it again is another poor argument (especially when you consider this is the suggestion forum).

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

There really is not arguement to say "Im being forced into collecting certain titles" because the ranks required for GWEN, SS and faction are so low that its very done.

The ranks needed to make pve only skills effective are also very low and you dont need them maxed to do a good job.

Again, there is no need. Its a game you dont need anything.
But that doesnt change the fact someone who spends time grinding a title has an advantage over those who dont. I point you towards GW being advertised as skill>time again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The issue with titles is completely optional and if you dont like it, then dont do it! Others do enjoy it and do like the title system and think its absolutely fine.

Well I think I covered all these points earlier in the post but just to make sure.

The whole game is optional, every single part of it is optional.
And again, this is the suggestion forum. Those of us who dont think its fine are making suggestions on how we feel it could be improved.

Your welcome to disagree and explain why, but telling us not to make suggestions on improving it really defeats the purpose of this.

******

Just a quick edit.

Reading through it I think I might have come across as a bit rude and insulting. I assure you thats not so, just bad choices of wording and not being bothered to go through and change it all

Im not saying your arguments are stupid or anything, just that they cant really be tied down to this topic
1) Because they can be used to cover everything
and
2) Because this is the suggestion forum, where the whole purpose is to suggest changes and improvements.

System_Crush · Dec 17, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

I agree that it would be good if the grind based titles would somehow be moved to skill.
But sharing them over your characters of an account isn't really a fix, just a way to reduce the grind.
Aside from that, a lvl 1 in Shing Yea being a sunspear grand-marshal from the start doesn't make much sense, as he's hasn't even been to Elona yet.

I have a possible option on making them skill based again, get rid of bounties and repeatable point gains.
You gain the points by 1 time shots for certain accomplishments, beneficial to the faction you do them for.

So sunspear points would be gained form the Istan and Kourna located missions.
With different rewards for normal-experts-masters rewards and HM and NM.
But you could only gain them once, so getting masters after getting normal and experts does not give you more points tan some one who got masters the first time.
As for that mission you get say 100 points, your quality in it only decides how much % of that 100 you gain.
If you already had X% of those 100, they are removed before gaining your new 100.

Light bringer would be gained the same form quests and missions in Vabbi and realm of torment.

This you get points not for grinding or killing, but for advancing in the game and for being skill full enough to get a master's reward.
(masters isn't hard enough, in some missions... what if you could get vanquisher on mission area's?)

This however has the problem of making AB just for kicks, which is very bad, so I do not call it a good solution. But maybe sum1 can turn the idea into something that will be good for GW

But the point is you should get faction for being a good sunspear commander, and Kurzic for being a good friend to the kurzics.
The first 2-3 ranks should be available by small deals of quests or boss killing.
But if you want higher, you'll have to achieve great deeds(skill) not deliver the same supplies 1000 times or scout the same bridge 1000 times!

freekedoutfish · Dec 17, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

******

Just a quick edit.

Reading through it I think I might have come across as a bit rude and insulting. I assure you thats not so, just bad choices of wording and not being bothered to go through and change it all

Im not saying your arguments are stupid or anything, just that they cant really be tied down to this topic
1) Because they can be used to cover everything
and
2) Because this is the suggestion forum, where the whole purpose is to suggest changes and improvements.

Dont worry, i wasnt offended. I understand what people saying when they make comments like "I have 8 characters and earning the same titles 8 times isnt fun".

I accept that and in a way, I agree because i have a few new chars now. But I just dislike the idea of making so many titles account based because it detracts from the char being individual in a way.

Also if GWEN titles were account based, we end up with lvl10s running to GWEN and getting armor straight away. While that is their choice and it has no impact on me... it destracts from the idea of working through GWEN to access this stuff.

I can see both sides, but i think too many factors are at play for everyyone to agree. I just think we need to retain an aspect of working for stuff and not giving every away so easily.

mortis corpus · Dec 17, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

making them account based would be nice would elimate the hours stairing at rank 9 sunspear, with a /sigh or lightbringer wondering if i have margonite hunger for the hours needing for that

will it happen,

when tresure chests, do not touch, or any of those start giving 100k and 2 golds